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hybridhavoc

The Changing Multiplayer Meta

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hybridhavoc    714

From this reddit post:  https://www.reddit.com/r/titanfall/comments/5oe8f9/my_playstyle_is_no_longer_valid_and_im_not_having/
 

Quote

I love Titanfall, believe me. It's one of the most fun games I've played in a long time, until recently anyway.

I like to run and gun. I never stop moving and might be a little reckless, but I've always been pretty good at it and usually go positive and near the top of the board. Now I can't do that anymore. I don't know about PC but on console the "camp with a devotion/hemlok" meta has completely changed the flow of the game. I can't move quickly around the map anymore without getting sniped by a devotion from a distant roof. I can't flank a roof camper because another roof camper is covering him and so on and so on. I've seen entire teams do this.

If Respawn wants to encourage multiple styles of play, that's perfectly fine, but they all need to be balanced. Right now camping is absolutely encouraged by the game with unbalanced weapons, the A-Wall, pilot sentries, and maps like crash site. I shouldn't be punished for wanting to play my way instead of camping behind an A-Wall.

I just wanted to get this off my chest.

5

I thought this would be an interesting topic for discussion, and wanted to get other peoples' opinions on the matter.  I originally posted this on the Discord, but thought the forum may be a better venue for the discussion.

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hybridhavoc    714

My initial response:

Quote

While I'm a Halo fanboy, I personally think that Halo's balance across all base weapons (not including REQ weapon variants) is pretty damn solid.

However, I sort of take issue with the OP's stance that "because I want to play this way and it doesn't work in MP anymore, things should be changed."  I mean, that constantly changing gameplay is part of the reason that MP is as enjoyable as it is. If the game is designed in a way that one and only one playstyle is guaranteed to dominate, then that removes a huge variable from the game as everybody's just going to be playing it the same.

The last thing I want is for the game to feel like I'm just fighting bots.

1

 

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thebigjay19    198

I care about Titanfall. It's one of my favorite shooters. I wanted to like TF2 but couldn't. The game has no flow. The maps don't encourage wallrunning and neither do the game modes. It's very disappointing for me.

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Duke大王    884
1 minute ago, thebigjay19 said:

I care about Titanfall. It's one of my favorite shooters. I wanted to like TF2 but couldn't. The game has no flow. The maps don't encourage wallrunning and neither do the game modes. It's very disappointing for me.

Absolutely agree as someone who has only played this game using movement. I may not be the best at it, but as all the tourney participants can attest to I enter beast mode as the Stim class. I counter-flank flankers with it and find it most satisfying when I get a melee kill in a close, hairy combat situation (I've done boosted stim vs boosted stim where we are both dodging each other and it's amazing).

But there is a hard counter to everything in this game, and it is ranged camping. Now that the masses have finally figured that out, movement won't win a game. A coordinated ranged cover team will always win on console. Why?

The game is functionally balanced as a traditional cover-based shooter without the press-A-to-enter-cover-mechanic. The time to kill is ridiculously low making all defense skills useless, the "best" weapons are mid to long tier range with built in up front burst (such that it doesn't matter if it's technically a two or three shot - in practical terms of time and trigger it's still one shot), and many of the maps are not built for movement. They're long hallways that if you sit at one end you can merrily destroy anyone trying to do all that parkour nonsense. 

You have no idea how utterly bullshit it feels to be killed by one stray bullet of the devotion while stim boosting in mid air at a zillion miles an hour by some guy at the other side of the long hallway sitting behind an a-wall munching on doritos.

The sentiment is same in Titans. Tone is still the best Titan for exacty the reasons mentioned in that reddit thread. Camping at ranged with the benefit of a shield and auto-lock. 

I'm all for multiple playstyles, and this can easily be achieved by tweaking either the damage numbers or player health. Gears is more about movement than Titanfall 2 is, ironically, because the gnasher is still the best loadout weapon in the game and that requires you to get up close and personal. 

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Hoptimus    1123

No wonder I die so much when I do run and gun. I do much better being sneaky and covert.

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BDaddyK    1106

You have no idea how utterly bullshit it feels to be killed by one stray bullet of the devotion while stim boosting in mid air at a zillion miles an hour by some guy at the other side of the long hallway sitting behind an a-wall munching on doritos.

Story of my life in TF2...

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Hoptimus    1123

Now reading the thread on REDDIT there are lots of good suggestions. YES the ROOF Campers are a lot more frequent than TF1 but it seems to not be a be all end all but a curve to learn. Some guys have some PILOT builds posted in there.

I run and gun my ass off and my win % continues to climb (currently at 79%). I just think some people get stuck on auto-pilot when they play, and they don't realize that players around them are improving, so they might need to tweak their tactics. They get frustrated because the lines and mechanics that used to dominate now produce inconsistent results.

I run phase shift with R201 and fire star... I love devotion players because that gun is like a fucking bat signal. I love A Wallers even more: bat signal + I know which way they'll be facing. I just don't get the constant whining we see here about play styles. This game has the potential to absolutely punish campers and ppl who rely on only one piece of their kit to get by... you just have to take advantage of it.

One thing that might help is playing a mode that focuses the battle. Campers are mocked, humiliated, and made extreme examples of in Hardpoint. Someone camping in some remote hole in the wall will render themselves an absolute non-issue.

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Duke大王    884

The suggestions need to specify console or PC player. PC it is a very, very different dynamic even as mentioned in that thread. Also, I don't like hardpoint so...not really very helpful. One game mode does not fix poor map design. R201 is a strange choice. Why R201? There's nothing stand-out about that weapon, at least on console. All the other assault rifles are better, and it's one of the weapons I'm killed the least with. Firestar sucks compared to Electric Smoke Grenade, although it's really funny to stick to a friendly teammate and watch them run around like a candle. Hybrid knows what I'm talking about. 

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BDaddyK    1106

@DukeDesu I like the R201, prolly the gun I do best with and have the most kills with. For me, it's got easy handing and predictable fire control. 

The biggest problem for me, is just not playing any MP game enough to know the all the maps well enough and when/where to use a certain loadout and playstyle that suits each map and gametype. Also being a fairly casual gamer I find myself falling into the trap of playing to my biggest strength and not taking the time to get comfortable with most guns and abilities. Most loadouts and play styles have a foil that I should be taking advantage of. 

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hybridhavoc    714
33 minutes ago, DukeDesu said:

Firestar sucks compared to Electric Smoke Grenade, although it's really funny to stick to a friendly teammate and watch them run around like a candle. Hybrid knows what I'm talking about. 

 

yporj4G.jpg

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Hoptimus    1123
6 minutes ago, BDaddyK said:

@DukeDesu I like the R201, prolly the gun I do best with and have the most kills with. For me, it's got easy handing and predictable fire control. 

The biggest problem for me, is just not playing any MP game enough to know the all the maps well enough and when/where to use a certain loadout and playstyle that suits each map and gametype. Also being a fairly casual gamer I find myself falling into the trap of playing to my biggest strength and not taking the time to get comfortable with most guns and abilities. Most loadouts and play styles have a foil that I should be taking advantage of. 

Also being a fairly casual gamer

 

LMFTFY Also being a BEER drinking DAD gamer... :beer::s1166:

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hybridhavoc    714

I do think that the ridiculously low TTK could be partly to blame for this. Though at the same time, if you increase the TTK then a lot of that mobility may just turn into how quickly you can get around the map, and not actually get integrated very well into the gunplay - I suppose that depends on how the community decides to play it from there.  Being one of those players that sits on rooftops with a G2 and tries to pick people off, I'll admit to being a part of this guy's problem, though in reading the Reddit thread I'm not nearly as bad as most of the examples that the users there give.

A part of me thinks that what is really happening here is that the run and gunners are getting stuck on using the same lanes, and the long range players are picking up on those.  On the maps where I tend to do best, I've developed an idea of where the players are going to flow, so I know what my sight-lines should be.

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Deadmeat    268

Some of the camping it seems to me could be caused because there is less verticality (is that a word) to the maps. In titanfall, the maps didn't just have 3 lanes, but they had levels of those lanes. Sure in 2 you can get up high in some places but you can't really stay or fight there.  Maps like Rise (umm now I've forgotten all the names) the water pumping station, the sim map, even the swamp, had 2 or 3 levels in each lane you could run.  Now all these maps you are either on the ground or you are in/on a building.  It is easier to sit in one place because there are fewer routes for pilots 

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BDaddyK    1106
14 minutes ago, Hoptimus said:

Also being a fairly casual gamer

 

LMFTFY Also being a BEER drinking DAD gamer... :beer::s1166:

QFT! 

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ninjabjj    1286

I find whenever I invest time in being sneaky I waste time getting setup only to be melee from behind or shot before I can set up my shot. Then I switch back to my normal run and gun lol. Am I doing it wrong? () ()

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hybridhavoc    714
1 minute ago, laziestninja said:

I find whenever I invest time in being sneaky I waste time getting setup only to be melee from behind or shot before I can set up my shot. Then I switch back to my normal run and gun lol. Am I doing it wrong? () ()

 

That's always a risk. May be that you're picking bad spots.

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Duke大王    884
2 minutes ago, Deadmeat said:

Some of the camping it seems to me could be caused because there is less verticality (is that a word) to the maps. In titanfall, the maps didn't just have 3 lanes, but they had levels of those lanes. Sure in 2 you can get up high in some places but you can't really stay or fight there.  Maps like Rise (umm now I've forgotten all the names) the water pumping station, the sim map, even the swamp, had 2 or 3 levels in each lane you could run.  Now all these maps you are either on the ground or you are in/on a building.  It is easier to sit in one place because there are fewer routes for pilots 

That's a really good point. Crash Site (I think is the one I'm thinking of, the jungle one) in particular could use more levels/layers. It has alternate routes, but those alternate routes are often easily covered and the map almost always tends to play out as one of at-ranged engagement behind cover along the cliff walls. 

 

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hybridhavoc    714
2 minutes ago, DukeDesu said:

That's a really good point. Crash Site (I think is the one I'm thinking of, the jungle one) in particular could use more levels/layers. It has alternate routes, but those alternate routes are often easily covered and the map almost always tends to play out as one of at-ranged engagement behind cover along the cliff walls. 

 

 

As a camper, I tend to stick to the cliff walls / the wrecked Titan tunnel.

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Deadmeat    268
10 minutes ago, hybridhavoc said:

As a camper, I tend to stick to the cliff walls / the wrecked Titan tunnel.

And crash site is perfect (maybe even made) for camping.  Sitting at the end of one of those lanes you can see from the ground all the way up each cliff wall.  one person can have the whole lane covered

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ninjabjj    1286
20 hours ago, hybridhavoc said:

That's always a risk. May be that you're picking bad spots.

That's likely also I think getting older my reaction time sucks ha ha. 

 

They need a mode 30's and 40's only ha ha 

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hybridhavoc    714
11 minutes ago, laziestninja said:

That's likely also I think getting older my reaction time sucks ha ha. They need a mode 30's and 40's only ha ha 

1

That's a private custom match of just us all on one team doing Attrition.  Killing grunts for days!

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